Ok, can we get the devs to look at this?
Pre-rendered frames is set to 1.
and the āVirtual Reality Pre-rendered framesā?
We have looked and are having trouble seeing any lag on the setups we are using, this includes a good number of previous beta testers. As the guys above are saying, with their setups they have no lag. I have the warthog and extension as do you. Iād be happy to video what I see and share, could you possibly do a vid for comparison also ?
Tony
Hi! Iām brand new here. I just got done with my first flight in the '47. I read this thread with interest because I didnāt experience any lag whatsoever, and in fact I was impressed with how the virtual cyclic moves to mimic my every cyclic move, instantly.
Iāve been flying the **** out of the H135 freeware heli lately, so initially I was just all over the place in the Bell. But after about 20 minutes, I was able to take off, fly, and get the thing back on the ground. The key is tiny cyclic inputs!
Ironically I started looking at the forums because I wanted to commend the developers for this great effort, but Iām bummed that some other folks are not having the same experience. Hopefully those folks can get it sorted.
My setup: Alienware R9 i7 9700K w/ 2060 Super and 32GB RAM; Reverb G2 headset, TMW grip on Virpil MongoosT-50CM2 base w/100mm extension. I have the preloads set very low in the base. MS and -47 settings are on their default values (no curves). I donāt have the patience to mess with that stuff unless I really have to.
My experience: commercial rating (for fun) in helis, mostly in the S300C/CB but also with some R22/R44 thrown in there.
All I know is that Iām going to be doing a lot more exploring, at 60kts rather than 130 
. Thanks to the FI folks!
2 Likes
Weāre glad you are enjoying it as much as us and hope you donāt ding it too badly whilst learning to fly her. Sheās a very forgiving old lady once you get to know her 
Welcome aboard.
Tony
I didnāt experience any lag neither .
I have a i79700K, RTX2070, 32G Ram
VKBsim gladiator as cyclic, VKBsim T-rudder and a X52 Pro as Collectif
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I āflyā the BELL 47G on the AMD Ryzen 9 5950X and RTX 3090 with the PUMA FlightStick Pro.
Because of the long cyclic stick, I set the sensitivity in the MSFS to 33%, so every minimal correction comes absolutely on time.
A fantastic helicopter through and through !!
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Hereās a couple of vids of my system showing the typical windows controller lag and MSFS with the Bell47g lag in 2D on the monitor, which are similar. Iām okay with that as every system Iāve built has been this way (though of course I wish it was better).
In MSFS when in VR, the lag doubles the above lag, and it doesnāt matter what Nvidia control panel setting is tweaked, itās always about double the 2d lag.
In other VR games thereās no noticeable difference with VR vs 2d lag.
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@dogmanbird thatās a superb post with great video explanation mate, thank you very much for sharing with us !!!
Just retested and in 2020 and VR I donāt see lag my end?
Tony
wow im not seeing that kind of lag in the windows game controller setup. must be something weird happening on your system
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Itās very slightly worse when I use warthog and tm airbus sticks.
Smitty - At first glance, itās still there on yours going forward back, but maybe not so bad left to right, but might be the angle weāre looking at it from. I also wonder if itās due to yours having shorter range of travel to get full end to end readings? Is this what youāre using to fly the Bell?
Would you have time to make another vid? If it could be straight on from behind (not diagonal) with shorter range of movement and a bit snappier? It might help me figure out how bad mine really is. Thank you if you can.
For me to get full travel in any direction, the top of the cyclic needs to travel about 35 - 40cm end to end.
I just want to also say, my TV has no noticeable lag between my mouse movement and pointer on the screen movement.
Cheers,
heres a better video. my stick is custom made; its hall effect sensors on a arduino leonardo.
top of stick at total full movement is 180mm forward/back and 130mm side to side
Thank you Smitty!
Yes I seem to have a case of the lags. Iāll need to do some investigationing
good little post here that may help your investigations mate ? = Reduce Input Lag in PC Games: Definitive Guide | DisplayLag
Tony
found it. Itās my 10 port USB hub. I can plug 2 devices in without a noticeable slow down, maybe just starting to see more lag with a third connected. As soon as the fourth gets plugged in, it looks as slow as my video. I usually have 6 connected to it. Not sure whatās going on there (polling more devices per cycle??)
VR is still twice what 2d is on my PC, but it is better. Itās still just that little bit too laggy in VR.
No one else experiences the VR lag increase over 2d?
No mate, I have a powered USB hub but only for my collective and pedals, everything else is plugged in on the back of my motherboard.
Tony
all my flight chair stuff goes into the pc thru this. maybe usb-3.0 to C maintains high speed?
Sorry, been away and I had to re-install MSFS to test.
Flying 2D only. 45-50FPS: Stick on the screen follows my stick without any noticable lag.
I turned on the dev console and the swashplate numbers seem to follow stick input.
Aircraft flies like a drunk hotair balloon.
It has way too much momentum. From stable flight, the amount of control required seems reasonable, but the amount of input required to counter A: Takes way too long to react and B: Takes way too much control input
Power requirements also seem way off. I often need the full 25" to pick up: (170lbs pilot, 50% fuel) and once levelling off and reducing power to 20" (cruise power), it will slow down almost to 0.
Same with initial pickup. Itāll go light and then without any further power inputs, itāll continue up to a 10ā hover.
Similar with translations: From a 6ā hover, I should not need to add any power for a take-off, but here, even with the gentlest translation ever, itāll loose too much altitude before reaching ETL.
Again: This is an easy helicopter to fly in real life. Itās not some bucking bronco that needs taming.
Sure, it takes work to fly it nicely, but thatās what makes it a good training helicopter.
5 Likes
Do you know the reg numbers of the 47ās your dev flew? Do they still fly?
So I am definitely experiencing mostly everything that dogmanbird and Implicit are describing:
- Input lag that is worse in VR than in 2D
- Helicopter appears to have more momentum than it should for its size, requiring large inputs to correct and taking too long to respond
- Power requirements to pick up also seem to be all over the place, whether on manual throttle or with the governor on. It definitely requires more throttle than articles about the helo lead me to believe. (They say minimal throttle required, I seem to need a lot)
- I seem to lose the same amount of altitude as I begin to accelerate from a hover no matter how gentle and slow my translation is, and it feels like too much.
I canāt boast real world flight time like Implicit can, but I do have several hundred hours flying helos in DCS World and I even run a channel on YouTube where I teach helicopter flight dynamics using DCS (https://youtube.com/c/vsTerminus). The majority of my time is in a 20,000lb medium transport helicopter (the Mi-8) and so itās really weird for me to say that the Bell 47 - especially in VR - handles as if it were bigger and heavier than that.
Anyway, I recorded some footage attempting to show you the input delay. Maybe itās an MSFS problem, maybe itās something else entirely. What I can say is that I donāt experience this in DCS and I have been experiencing it in the Bell 47 since release despite upgrading my hardware significantly, reinstalling Windows, trying with and without a USB hub, and more. The results are always the same for me.
This video shows input delay in both 2D and VR (Valve Index) and itās pretty obviously worse in VR to the point where I can barely even hover this thing. Every account I read from people who flew the real 47s suggest that it should be very responsive and very easy to fly, and thatās not what I am experiencing.
