Hi Raoul,
As my recent suggestions might have indicated, the apparent lack of anyone else with the same issue, is making me suspect that your external drive is in some way causing or contributing to it.
It looks like whatever power saving facility it has is hardwired, so none of the windows options are likely to make any difference. Have you checked if other users of that drive might have had any experiences that might be similar to yours, perhaps via their forum or posts on reddit?
Paul
Given your experience with changing date/time stamps, i did a search and came across this, External hard drives: ‘date last accessed’ file? - Information Security Stack Exchange .
It would appear that at least some external drives might not store the date and time of the last access of the file and i wonder if this might be throwing a spanner in the works of the initialisation process for the B47?
If it looks like your drive is not currently storing this information, maybe try out the suggested ‘fsutil behavior set disablelastaccess 0’ to override the potential default behaviour of the drive?
The last access date is not changed even after reading the file on Windows 7 - Super User appears to suggest something similar. It also provides detail of a registry edit, which might be better, if the above fsutil command works, to make the change permanent.
These are both fairly old posts and it may be that the default for external drives for not storing last accessed data has changed, but worth checking out.
Unfortunately, the “date last accessed” suggestion did not help. MSFS would just CTD as soon as it loads the main menu.
Putting on my software developer hat, it seems to me as if MSFS is querying the interface implemented by the plane object/model, and MSFS is not happy with the answer that the object (B47) provides, and CTD. But if I touched the file dates and restarted MSFS, then MSFS would allow it to load without CTD. It seems as if there’s a state: uninitialized (for newly installed plane models), and initialized. It is the initialized state of the model that MSFS is having trouble with, on my machine.
Would it be possible to have a non-functional version of the B47 model, that doesn’t talk to the Heli Manager at all? If we start with a basic model, and from there try to incrementally add back the functionality, we may be able to figure out what causes the conflict, and then investigate from that angle.
Hi Raoul,
I’m wondering how the B47 can cause the Main Menu to CTD? Does it only do that when the B47 is still selected from a previous session?
Also, and i know i didn’t suggest it, but did you “touch” all of the files in the MSFS installation after doing that suggested fsutil command. I was suspecting, possibly wrongly, that the sim was trying to get the date last accessed for the files involved and was maybe getting a null response and not handling it properly. For that to be avoided, last accessed dates would need to be stored against the sim’s files and the B47’s files. If you list the details of the B47’s folders, for example, can you see a last accessed date? Oh, you’d need to select an additional field, date last accessed, to file explorer, to reveal that information.
As for a “non-functional” version, i am afraid that isn’t going to be possible.
Just out of interest and i know you said you didn’t want to overwork the internal SSD, but have you thought of trying MSFS on the internal drive rather than the external one? Others, as i mentioned earlier, have had issues running MSFS on external drives and have “solved” the problem by moving it to an internal drive.
Also, have you opened a zendesk ticket with MS, as especially if MSFS is crashing at the main menu, the sim itself is likely to at least be playing a role in the issue?
Cheers
Paul
edit: just another thought, as the sim should be setting the date last accessed as it works through its startup, if my theory is correct, before you do anything else, if you use file explorer to look at the last accessed dates of files in the MSFS, it should show you the files that have been accessed before the crash, as they should have a date last accessed, as long as you had run the fsutil command. Any files that would have been accessed had it not been for the crash, possibly including the one causing the crash, would still have no last accessed date.
Hi Paul,
CTD happens at various places, but most frequently at: 1) MSFS showing the main menu for the first time, if the B47 was the last plane used; 2) if I switched from another plane to B47, it CTDs after loading the flight plan. It also happens if I crashed the B47 and attempted to restart the flight. It happens less now, since I disabled the crash detection.
I only touched all the files inside the flyinside_bell47 folder. I didn’t touch the MSFS game files (e.g. FlightSimulator.exe). I remembered trying to make the folder visible for NVidia to optimize the FlightSimulator.exe, but I didn’t have the right privileges (MSFS has made it very complicated to change file ownership and permissions). After setting the LastFileAccessed using fsutil, I did see the correct Last Accessed Time, say if I opened a file for viewing. However, the MSFS game files seem to be stuck with the time it was installed.
There are several reasons why I don’t want to move the game to the internal drive – I have 2 internal drives, both SSD drives. My machine allows no more than 2 internal drives. The one that has enough space (450GB) left of my 1 TB drive, is used for my own projects and family photos and videos, but 200GB would be taken by MSFS and add-ons. I should also leave some space for the SSD drive. Knowing how frequently MSFS updates its game files, I’m hesitant to move the game there. I’d hate to lose access to my work and precious memory (even with backups, I still managed to lose pictures from a trip when my son was 1)!
I haven’t opened a ZenDesk ticket with MS, since I thought it’s more an issue with this B47 plane. It doesn’t happen with any other plan I have. Perhaps I could, but I don’t know how they could reproduce the problem, if they don’t have the B47 files!
Cheers
PS: This is what happens when I try to touch a file date of a MSFS game file:
PS F:\WindowsApps\Microsoft.FlightSimulator_1.15.10.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe> (dir .\FlightSimulator.exe).LastAccessTime = [System.DateTime]::Now
Exception setting “LastAccessTime”: “Access to the path
‘F:\WindowsApps\Microsoft.FlightSimulator_1.15.10.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe\FlightSimulator.exe’ is denied.”
At line:1 char:1
+ CategoryInfo : NotSpecified: (:) [], SetValueInvocationException
+ FullyQualifiedErrorId : ExceptionWhenSetting
PS F:\WindowsApps\Microsoft.FlightSimulator_1.15.10.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe>
Which “MSFS game files” have you tried, as most of the folders and files I have in my \Local\Packages\Microsoft.FlightSimulator_8wekyb3d8bbwe\ folder have last accessed dates that match the date and time that I last ran MSFS?
I only tried flightsimulator.exe
Update on this issue: after a few more frustrating random CTDs, I decided to be adventurous and went ahead and moved the game and the huge community/official folder to my tiny internal drive. The game runs very stable now – no CTD in the whole day. I don’t want to jinx it… but it does appear that the game has issue with the sim and the community content stored in an external drive, at least for me.
It sounds like a larger internal SSD might be in order then Raoul.
There does appear to be an issue with MSFS being installed on an external drive, perhaps with aircraft that rely on an initialisation on first load. It’d have been interesting to see how the Aerosofft CRJ would have behaved on your external drive setup, that being another that takes a few minutes to initialise on first load.
It is good to hear that you have got it working and if I were you, i’d just spend some time enjoying it.
Fly safe
Paul
I spoke too soon. One CTD so far…
Hopefully that’s just pure coincidence. Will keep checking…
Was the event log showing the same exception code as the previous one?
Actually no, this time it is 0x80000003:
Faulting application name: FlightSimulator.exe, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x6087d3ea
Faulting module name: FlightSimulator.exe, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x6087d3ea
Exception code: 0x80000003
Fault offset: 0x0000000001bdb742
Faulting process ID: 0x110
Faulting application start time: 0x01d750021cd1487e
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.FlightSimulator_1.15.10.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe\FlightSimulator.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.FlightSimulator_1.15.10.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe\FlightSimulator.exe
Report ID: acc0f77a-4d9f-4a27-a8ee-84d280d3fc06
Faulting package full name: Microsoft.FlightSimulator_1.15.10.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe
FlightSimulator.exe - Application Error (0x80000003) - Bugs & Issues / Performance, Graphics & CTDs - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums might be worth a look.
It could be that windows is a little confused where and how big to create the pagefile, now that you have moved MSFS to the internal drive. The suggested fix will hopefully clear up that confusion for windows.
Crash to desktop without error message - Bugs & Issues / Performance, Graphics & CTDs - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums might be worth a look also.
and one more :- Finally…Solved CTD issues… for those of us with < 32 GB ram - Self-Service / PC & Hardware - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums
If the crash was when you were flying over an area with lots of detail, which would be hungry on memory, that might tend to implicate the virtual memory, so that final link might be where you ought to start.
Thanks Paul, for the ideas. Like I said, perhaps it’s just a coincidence. With the internal drive, it doesn’t CTD all that much compared to before (when it was using the external drive). It is much more enjoyable now – of course I probably should get a larger internal drive (the not so enjoyable part!) Anyway, thanks for all the help!
I do enjoy learning to fly the B45 very much! It is much harder to control than the current version of H135 free helicopter, but I found it more realistic and more satisfying!
BTW, some questions to help me fly at realistic settings:
My Thrustmaster joysticks have a rather stiff center–the sticks like to snap to the center. I found it very hard to make tiny movements when the sticks are near the center. I read somewhere in your forum that someone has success with a low cyclic sensitivity (I set it to 10/15/0). I haven’t flown a real helicopter before, only simulators, but I don’t remember having so much trouble stabilizing a helicopter. How do I know if what I’m experiencing is realistic or not?
Is there a way to map the “Piston Governor” to a joystick button?
Are there any tips to lift the B47 (without going beyond the red in the manifold)? The B47 has a tendency to sink, and I find myself having to constantly pull the collectives up in short bursts… I’m most probably doing something wrong…
Thanks
Hi Raoul,
It’s really good to hear that you are enjoying the B47, at last, and i agree on the pain of needing more hardware, but at least SSDs, including M.2s, appear to be becoming more affordable. Now if you’d needed an RTX3080, or any of the 30 series for that matter, life might have been more difficult. 
As for your questions:-
I have a Warthog HOTAS and the centring springs on the joystick are way too powerful for use on a helicopter. I use a 20cm extension that effectively weakens the springs and makes the B47 far more controllable, some people have swapped out the springs for weaker ones, but I understand that you can also adjust the sensitivity settings so that you have to move the stick/cyclic more to get the same result as before. As for whether it’s realistic, I suspect at least a single flight in a RL helo would be necessary, to allow a comparison. If you are still struggling, there’s no shame in making use of the easier sensitivity and stability settings in the Heli Manager. I did when i started flying the B47 and it wasn’t long before i was able to move them to full realism settings.
The governor cannot currently be mapped to a control, but I am told that this facility will be introduced in the next update.
You shouldn’t need to take the manifold pressure into the red to get off the ground. I got lucky with a detent insert, that i put into my throttle for the A32NX and CRJ, as the CLB detent sits just about at the point that the B47 normally wants to start lifting off. However, there are other factors that affect the helo’s enthusiasm for leaving the ground, including it’s weight and the altitude of the airport that you want to take off from. I normally don’t bother adjusting the default fuel or payload, but i have reduced it before, when flying at altitude, when trying to climb as high as possible. When at higher altitudes, you may need to pull the mixture lever back, to ensure that the RPM needle stays in the green, as it will otherwise drop when there is less O2 available and the fuel mixture is too rich.
I hope this helps
Cheers
Paul
Hi Paul,
I do hope to build a better machine, eventually. Until then, I’m still quite content with my machine, so I’ll make the best of it!
Oh, it’s not the fear of being judged for not going full realism. It has more to do with personal preferences, with how realistic I want my simulations to be – I want to learn to fly as close to RL as is currently possible. I just felt that the easy and medium settings are a tad too easy… like driving an automatic car or even a driverless car… very good to get from point A to point B without too much effort. However, flying realistic gives me the feeling (or thrill) of driving MT, constantly having to feel the engine and coordinate the clutch and the gear shifts. However, if the gear box or the clutch is too finicky and I have to constantly adjust, it wouldn’t make the drive very safe or even enjoyable!
I know what you mean by the joystick extensions, and I’m pretty sure they’ll work. Mine are a pair of T16000M dual sticks – I use the left stick for my collectives and my right stick for the cyclic. Unfortunately they’d require surgeries to add an extension – even then they’d be too long for other uses. Wish mine could be easily changed like the Warthog! I suppose I can change the springs in mine, or fiddle with it…
Thanks for the tips about lifting… if I need to change the default fuel and weight for the B47 in order to lift high, does that mean the default settings are a bit too heavy? Is there a way to change the default settings and have them remembered for all flights with the B47?
Thanks,
Raoul