We need some kind of trim system

I’m not surprised that there’s no in-cockpit trim system, since the real 47 doesn’t have one. However, I am VERY surprised that MSFS’ push-button trim binds are disabled from working. Most of us are using a stick and pedals with centering springs that we have to fight full-time in order to fly this heli straight, and I’m not going to use the product much long-term if I have to do that. (My understanding is, the real 47 has no springs, just control damping, and is very stable even with hands off the controls.) For the same reason you made a fake engine governor, at least allow MSFS’ built-in trim to work.

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That’s a great request, I’ve put it on our list :+1:

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I totally agree on that,I have no rudder pedal setup and constantly twisting my X52 Pro grip while finetuning with the cyclic is nearly impossible to sustain for longer flights.

I really enjoy flying this helicopter, but currently I mostly do short flights and practice near the airport.

NeoFly has some helicopter missions so I was excited doing some of those, but I did not enjoy flying from the airport to the mission location (about 30nm). So yeah I would love to have trim options as well!

Can I suggest some kind of force trim release as used in various real aircraft. A button is pressed which resets the datum of the spring. In the sim the control could be returned to centre while force trim is selected but the position of the controls is fixed from when the button is pressed.

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Hi @aicop / @Nezza and welcome aboard.

Thanks for your input and I am sure that Dan will take it into account when adding the feature to the Bell.

Paul

I agree it would be nice to see msfs standard controls addressable from the Bell 47, but tbh - why? Apart from the fact that a lot of people don’t have the hardware of course.

If you had ever looked at a realworld Bell 47, early versions only had a direct link; later ones like the British Army Sioux even had hydraulics. But believe me - the hydraulic assist was really odd at first to get used to. You could waggle the cyclic around in a modest circle of a couple of inches in diameter and get no movement on the rotors because the input lever that opened the valves was a “sloppy link”.

As far as flying goes - the Bell 47 is a VERY basic flyingf machine and fling it in sim needs that thought in the back of your head all the time. Applyin collective friction helped a bit so that you could fly the cyclic left handed while you tuned radios, but autopilot, navaids, ILS and loads more of those things that complicate your life by trying to make it easier :wink: , well no one really thought of putting them in such a basic chopper. Flying was VFR and IFR (Ve follow roads and I follow rivers/railways) dead reckoning.

Still - take a look at what the Blue Eagles Sioux formation team was capable of. Dancing around at low level in a choreographed ballet was not for the faint hearted - especially with a sloppy link that was sloppier than a lady of negotiable affection’s… well, you know, ahem! TMI on that.

So don’t be faint hearted. Invest in a set of pedals, a simple Logitech throttle quadrant (you can get “screw to your seat” collectives, but a tad expensive) and a X52 type joystick. Spring removal in the latter is easy and funnily enough - there IS a certain amount of sloppy link ishness without the spring.

As for me, I have already got more Bell 47 hours in sim than any other aircraft. Although I still have a way to go to catch up with the dozens of “you have” hours on type I gained in my army career. And compared to Scout, Gazelle and Lynx, the Sioux really was “basic” in real life, This really makes it that much more fun in the sim.

Oh, and if you have a VR headset - put it on

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Do you play multiple games? I would hate having to remove the spring and then reinstall it on my warthog every time I change games or aircraft.

Hi Mallc, I must admit that I don’t play many different games, but I do fly in msfs as much as I can and I am forever changing between yoke, HOTAS, joystick and throttle quadrant - in fact I have two Logitech throttle quadrants so I can reasonably facilitate twin engined models. But even in sim I prefer “Golden Age”, WW2 type of flying and army stuff I knew when I was a young technician. When the Gazelle came into service that was a quantum leap :laughing:

Anyway, removing the F.E.E.L. spring doesn’t take that long - less than a minute. A good compromise though is to use either the weakest or second weakest spring. You still get the looseness of the sloppy link (you can adjust this in a profile so that the stick centre has a wider range of free movement). In fact if you set up a few different profiles for your controller, then the Logitech joystick half of the HOTAS can stay permanently connecte for all joystick and sidestick controlled aircraft and just change quadrants and other throttle controllers for the left hand.

Of course - it is all a personal thing. Around 35+ years ago I had a set of real sticks from a Westland Scout helicopter which I managed to wire up for an Atari 800 and later for an Amiga.

So I am sorry - unless you have separate controllers for all situations, you have to make compromises all the way

Or… they can add in a trim button that is the standard across many flight sims and that several do for this exact reason of hardware centering springs.

How do you remove the springs from a xbox controller that some people use? A centering control trim button would be the difference between just being able to fly it somewhat normally or not.

OK Malic… fair points. :wink:

Of course, when I talk about flight simulation I mean simulating a real world experience as far as possible. So what is an X-Box controller? Something like a Wii stick? Certainly no aircraft I have sat in flies by Nintendo… Just joking - don’t take me serious, it’s just my sense of humour and the fact that I am more traditional in my views. Oh, and I have never ever owned an X-Box or playstation and I am hopeless with those weird controller things.

After all - the Bell 47 never had trim, autopilot, auto-hover or things like that. It was never meant to. I think the closest a Bell 47 ever came to magic was when someone came up with the Soloy gas turbine conversion. Us old knackers like to reminisce properly.

I can’t help you with your wishes more than the few suggestions I have offered. Flyinside have done a brilliant job on this helicopter and if they want to help you and if they can, then they will.

And don’t forget - This Bell 47 is a piston engine powered hellicopter. It doesn’t have much power to spare. You cannot really fly it hands off. Without the hydraulics you do need some muscle power. There is a more modern helicopter available in the shape of the Airbus H135. All I can say is if you want to fly a Bell 47, you can’t really enjoy it if you want systems like those in the Westland Scout - that does use a trim control. In fact you can fly it by the coolie hat a lot of the time. Now when that is modelled you should have a trim button.

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+1 for some trim control please! - either hotas hatswitch, to nudge forward, backward, left/right as per planes, or a trim button same as the one the use in DCS for the Huey, which fixes the current axis positions allowing you to return the axes to neutral? I know its not realistic in the 47 to have this trim but it helps simmers with joysticks and the use of it is purely at the discretion of the gamer.

Already implemented mate, it’s the msfs standard trims and you can assign them to your joysticks trim tab :slight_smile:

Tony